This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Jawaharlal Nehru article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.
This article is written in Indian English, which has its own spelling conventions (colour, travelled, centre, analysed, defence) and some terms that are used in it may be different or absent from other varieties of English. According to the relevant style guide, this should not be changed without broad consensus.
Jawaharlal Nehru was a Social sciences and society good articles nominee, but did not meet the good article criteria at the time. There may be suggestions below for improving the article. Once these issues have been addressed, the article can be renominated. Editors may also seek a reassessment of the decision if they believe there was a mistake.
This article was copy edited by Twofingered Typist, a member of the Guild of Copy Editors, on 20 August 2021.Guild of Copy EditorsWikipedia:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsTemplate:WikiProject Guild of Copy EditorsGuild of Copy Editors articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject India, which aims to improve Wikipedia's coverage of India-related topics. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page.IndiaWikipedia:WikiProject IndiaTemplate:WikiProject IndiaIndia articles
This article is within the scope of the University of Cambridge WikiProject, an attempt to improve articles relating to the University of Cambridge, and to standardize and extend the coverage of the University in the encyclopedia. If you would like to participate, you can help us by editing the article attached to this notice, or you could visit the project page, where you can join the project, learn more about it, see what needs to be done, or contribute to the discussion.University of CambridgeWikipedia:WikiProject University of CambridgeTemplate:WikiProject University of CambridgeUniversity of Cambridge articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject British Empire, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of British Empire on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.British EmpireWikipedia:WikiProject British EmpireTemplate:WikiProject British EmpireBritish Empire articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Cold War, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of the Cold War on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Cold WarWikipedia:WikiProject Cold WarTemplate:WikiProject Cold WarCold War articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Atheism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of atheism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AtheismWikipedia:WikiProject AtheismTemplate:WikiProject AtheismAtheism articles
Add Atheism info box to all atheism related talk pages (use {{WikiProject Atheism}} or see info box)
Ensure atheism-related articles are members of Atheism by checking whether [[Category:Atheism]] has been added to atheism-related articles – and, where it hasn't, adding it.
Try to expand stubs. Ideas and theories about life, however, are prone to generating neologisms, so some stubs may be suitable for deletion (see deletion process).
State atheism needs a reassessment of its Importance level, as it has little to do with atheism and is instead an article about anti-theist/anti-religious actions of governments.
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Philosophy, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of content related to philosophy on Wikipedia. If you would like to support the project, please visit the project page, where you can get more details on how you can help, and where you can join the general discussion about philosophy content on Wikipedia.PhilosophyWikipedia:WikiProject PhilosophyTemplate:WikiProject PhilosophyPhilosophy articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Politics, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of politics on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.PoliticsWikipedia:WikiProject PoliticsTemplate:WikiProject Politicspolitics articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Socialism, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of socialism on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.SocialismWikipedia:WikiProject SocialismTemplate:WikiProject Socialismsocialism articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Literature, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Literature on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.LiteratureWikipedia:WikiProject LiteratureTemplate:WikiProject LiteratureLiterature articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Asia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Asia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.AsiaWikipedia:WikiProject AsiaTemplate:WikiProject AsiaAsia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject East Anglia, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of East Anglia on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.East AngliaWikipedia:WikiProject East AngliaTemplate:WikiProject East AngliaEast Anglia articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Human rights, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Human rights on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Human rightsWikipedia:WikiProject Human rightsTemplate:WikiProject Human rightsHuman rights articles
This article is within the scope of WikiProject Civil Rights Movement, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Civil Rights Movement on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Civil Rights MovementWikipedia:WikiProject Civil Rights MovementTemplate:WikiProject Civil Rights MovementCivil Rights Movement articles
According to Wikipedia's guidelines, every Indian name must have an ISO 15919 transliteration. The Latin alphabets corresponding to the Indic script alphabets are mentioned in the page.
The transliteration is recommended to avoid using multiple Indic scripts and consequently eliminate language bias. As mentioned in this, व will be written as v and since the name ends with ल and not ल्, it shall end with la and not l. The a in ISO transliteration is used for अ, whereas ā is used for आ. The similarly corresponding alphabets in other Indian languages are as mentioned on the article.
All transliteration should be from the written form in the original script of the original language of the name or term. The original text in the original script may also be included for reference and checking. — From the second paragraph of the article. So even if the अ in the end of the name is not pronounced, it will still be added nevertheless.
I hope that clarifies everything, and we here can edit the Wikipedia article as Wikipedia wants us to do it.
@Fowler&fowler it's been 5 days. Have you seen this? Can I make the edit now?
Also, when have you seen the uh-hurr thing used for an Indian name on Wikipedia? Are there examples of Indian articles using that kind of respell? Pur 0 0 (talk) 20:52, 18 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is a transliteration though, not a pronunciation guide. It should ideally be completely faithful to the script.
But I don't know how relevant the Devanagari version of Nehru's name is. He lived in a colonized country, as Fowler points out. I'm not sure he ever had privilege of caring about the native spelling of his name, Devanagari, Sharda or anything else. Taking it out altogether won't have much of an impact. TryKid[dubious – discuss]00:37, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The pronounciation of the word abound be given in the International Phonetic Alphabet, not a pseudo-transliteration mimicking the ISO 15919 or IAST. Lāl for लाल is simply incorrect transliteration, even if that's how it's pronounced in modern Hindu due to schwa deletion. This kind of "common sense/common knowledge" stuff is often allowed stay unsourced on Wikipedia, but it shouldn't be. TryKid[dubious – discuss]00:53, 21 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
It is not about the language (Sanskrit), but rather the script (Devanagari, since the Hindi IPA is given). Also, as mentioned in the guideline, it has to be done on the articles about Indian topics rather than Sanskrit-origin topics. For example, Nepalese names will be in Devanagari, Bangladeshi names will be in Bengali script etc. Like how it has been done on India's article. The article gives the guideline for all Indian languages, so even if we don't consider Devanagari, it will be replicated the same way in any other Indic script. Pur 0 0 (talk) 16:09, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
Why is it Hindi? It says IPA Hindi-Urdu which is = Hindustani. See the pronuciation of: kʰ खाल کھال khāl cab. It is not khāla or even khālə. I'm happy to remove Hindi altogether, as the official language of the Raj was Urdu and Nehru lived 58 of his 75 years during it. His wedding invitation was printed in Persian. I'm also happy to change it to IPA:English, as Bose's page has. Fowler&fowler«Talk»17:50, 19 October 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I am interested in editing the lead and wondering about this part from the third paragraph:
Nehru and the Congress dominated Indian politics during the 1930s. Nehru promoted the idea of the secular nation-state in the 1937 provincial elections, allowing the Congress to sweep the elections, and to form governments in several provinces. In September 1939, the Congress ministries resigned to protest Viceroy Lord Linlithgow's decision to join the war without consulting them. After the All India Congress Committee's Quit India Resolution of 8 August 1942, senior Congress leaders were imprisoned and for a time the organisation was suppressed. Nehru, who had reluctantly heeded Gandhi's call for immediate independence, and had desired instead to support the Allied war effort during World War II, came out of a lengthy prison term to a much altered political landscape. The Muslim League, under Muhammad Ali Jinnah, had come to dominate Muslim politics in the interim. In the 1946 provincial elections, Congress won the elections but the League won all the seats reserved for Muslims, which the British interpreted to be a clear mandate for Pakistan in some form. Nehru became the interim prime minister of India in September 1946, with the League joining his government with some hesitancy in October 1946.
I question whether we need to describe what Nehru thought about the Quit India movement and whether he wanted to support the Allied war effort and World War II in so many words? That seems to me to have too much focus on mentioning these as possible major reasons contributing to the popularisation of the Muslim League (through the power vacuum and weakness of the Congress, is that actually correct?) long after the 1937 elections, leading to the Partition of India. Is this necessary?
I wonder if one can really attribute a direct causal link between Nehru's ideas about a secular-nation state and the Congress victory in the 1937 elections? I wonder because the Congress contested only a few Muslim reserved seats and won only a handful of those. The 1937 Indian provincial elections article indicates that this idea did not necessarily win support of Muslims. The Muslim League fared poorly, but that seems to be its own topic. Perhaps the power vacuum led to the resurgence of the Muslim League, but do we need to go into details about how the Muslim League rose to prominence by 1946-47? It reads like we need to show how partition came to be, when it had been supposedly been discredited in the 1937 elections? Is that actually the consensus?
Also, there seems to be a glaring error in this section. The Muslim League did not win all seats reserved for Muslims in 1946.
I think the lead can be shortened. If Nehru's ideas about religious pluralism is to be mentioned, Gandhi's article seems like a good example:
Gandhi's vision of an independent India based on religious pluralism was challenged in the early 1940s by a Muslim nationalism which demanded a separate homeland for Muslims within British India. In August 1947, Britain granted independence, but the British Indian Empire was partitioned into two dominions, a Hindu-majority India and a Muslim-majority Pakistan.
My edit would have the third paragraph as something like this:
Under Nehru's leadership, the Congress won the 1937 provincial elections and formed governments in several provinces. In 1946, the Congress again won most seats and most provinces, but the Muslim League won most seats reserved for Muslims, which the British interpreted to be a clear mandate for their demands for a separate Muslim homeland in some form. Nehru became the interim prime minister of India in September 1946, with the League joining his government in October 1946. In August 1947, Britain granted independence, but the British Indian Empire was partitioned into two dominions, a Hindu-majority India and a Muslim-majority Pakistan.
OR
During the 1930s, Nehru promoted federalism, pluralism and secularism for British India's multi-lingual and multi-ethnic society. The Congress won the 1937 provincial elections and formed governments in several provinces. In 1946, the Congress again won most seats and most provinces, but the Muslim League won most seats reserved for Muslims, which the British interpreted to be a clear mandate for their demands for a separate Muslim homeland in some form. Nehru became the interim prime minister of India in September 1946, with the League joining his government in October 1946. In August 1947, Britain granted independence, but the British Indian Empire was partitioned into two dominions, a Hindu-majority India and a Muslim-majority Pakistan.
Your proposal starting with "Under Nehru's leadership..." is better, just the last sentence should be: "In August 1947, Britain granted independence, but the British Indian Empire was partitioned into two dominions, Dominion of India and Dominion of Pakistan, while the princely states were allowed to decide which of the two countries to join or remain independent." Capitals00 (talk) 03:36, 23 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
level-4 vital article is rated B-class on Wikipedia's content assessment scale.
.svg){kind=small}
.svg){kind=small}
Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Cannolis (talk) 19:00, 28 May 2024 (UTC)