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There is no reliable source saying that it as high as you are trying to claim. The criticisms against McCarthy are more than enough to call the validity of his claims into question. Insanityclown1 (talk) 08:44, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
And if you read the article, you’ll find that it makes no difference on the conclusions he draws even if the figures were actually fudged by a factor of 30 percent. Second, Rummel does not establish an upper limit, simply a floor. Meanwhile, you continue to engage in blatantly biased edits all across Wikipedia. Insanityclown1 (talk) 08:57, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Also, not only McCarthy says this, these sources says villages burnt by hellenic army also:
Özdalga, Elizabeth. The last dragoman: the Swedish orientalist Johannes Kolmodin as scholar, activist and diplomat (2006), Swedish Research Institute in Istanbul, p. 63.
Várdy, Béla (2003). Ethnic Cleansing in Twentieth-Century Europe. Social Science Monographs. p. 190.
Toynbee, Arnold. "Toynbee, Arnold (6 April 1922) [9 March 1922], "Letter", The Times, Turkey".
Loder Park, U.S. Vice-Consul James. "Smyrna, 11 April 1923. US archives US767.68116/34".
HG, Howell. "Report on the Nationalist Offensive in Anatolia, Istanbul: The Inter-Allied commission proceeding to Bourssa, F.O. 371-7898, no. E10383.(15 September 1922)
Nobody is talking about whether Justin McCarthy is a genocide denier or not. It is up to him whether he accepts the genocide or not, but his calculations regarding the oppression of the Turks should not be ignored. BaharatlıCheetos2.0'ın devamı (talk) 09:06, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is plenty of evidence pointing that his numbers are biased in favor of a Turkish nationalist point of view. That is enough to make it highly suspect, as he has no interest in reporting factually accurate numbers, only numbers that support his viewpoint. Insanityclown1 (talk) 09:10, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It's fair to say that McCarthy is biased, but I'm not sure that it makes him entirely unusable with regard to Turkish or Muslim losses. On that subject he is better regarded than on Armenians. I would cite him over Rummel who knows little about Ottoman history (t · c) buidhe00:48, 26 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is saying only 15000 died, only that it is currently inappropriate to assert that over half a million people died without reliable sources. If you read the article, you would have noticed that 15000 was the low end of the range, not the upper limits. Insanityclown1 (talk) 09:53, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
In my opinion, the worst of these was being accused of being a politicized, nationalist scientist, which is what I hate the most. Untrue reasons were made up as to why I said these things. Like my mother is Turkish, my wife is Turkish, I receive huge amounts of money from the Turkish State. None of these are true, but even if they were true they wouldn't affect my writing one bit. The way to challenge a scientist's work is to read what he has written and respond with scientific work, not to attack that scientist's personality.
Yeah that’s not convincing. McCarthy's work "[serves] to muddy the waters for external observers, conflating war and one-sided murder with various discrete episodes of ethnic conflict... [A] series of easy get-out clauses for Western politicians and non-specialist historians keen not to offend Turkish opinion”
Point is that there seems to be consensus in the academic community that something is fishy with McCarthy’s numbers. A quote by McCarthy isn’t enough to clear suspicion. Insanityclown1 (talk) 09:30, 25 July 2024 (UTC)[reply]
^"Of these 37,000 Turks only 6,000 could be accounted for among the living, while 1,000 Turks were known to have been shot or burned to death." U.S. Vice-Consul James Loder Park to Secretary of State, Smyrna, 11 April 1923. US archives US767.68116/34.